Legislature(1997 - 1998)

02/17/1997 08:40 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE BILL NO. 83                                                           
                                                                               
     "An Act  making an appropriation  for management fees  for the            
     constitutional   budget  reserve  fund  (art.   IX,  sec.  17,            
     Constitution  of the State  of Alaska);  and providing  for an            
     effective date."                                                          
                                                                               
DEPARTMENT OF MILITARY AND VETERAN'S AFFAIRS                                 
                                                                               
NICO BUS, BUDGET COORDINATOR, DIVISION  OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES,            
DEPARTMENT  OF MILITARY AND  VETERAN'S AFFAIRS  (DMVA) pointed  out            
that there  were additional DMVA  items in Section 4  and explained            
that Section  3 was a  $1 million request  for the  disaster relief            
fund.  He noted  that the department had been  using up unobligated            
balances over  the past  couple of  years, but needed  supplemental            
money for  the fund in  order to be  prepared for the  remainder of            
the year.                                                                      
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp asked  whether  the disaster  relief  fund could  be            
mixed and  matched with money made  available for the  Miller Reach            
fire  and whether  that was  disaster  or forestry  money. Mr.  Bus            
replied  that  the funds  were  both;  there  had been  a  specific            
supplemental  request  for  the fire  and  there  had also  been  a            
supplemental  request in FY  96 for the  disaster relief  fund that            
carried into FY  97. He added that the available  balance had since            
been used up by other disasters declared in the fall.                          
                                                                               
Mr. Bus continued  that Section 4(d) was a request  for $100,000 in            
general  funds  for  radio  equipment.  The  department  needed  to            
communicate between the different  emergency-response organizations            
when  it  coordinated  disasters.   Specifically,  there  had  been            
problems  with the  radio for the  Miller Reach  fire. The  request            
would  allow the  department to  purchase a  portable console  that            
would enable  better communications.  The long-term  solution would            
be a work group  between state, federal, and  municipal agencies to            
learn the right frequencies, for example.                                      
                                                                               
Senator Phillips asked whether the  discussed item was typically RP            
or   single   source,   and  whether   additional   problems   were            
anticipated. Mr. Bus  replied RP; he did not  foresee problems with            
telecommunications.                                                            
                                                                               
Mr.  Bus  turned to  Section  7,  a  request  for $220,000  for  an            
emergency-alert system for the Division  of Emergency Services. The            
system  would  be used  to  alert  the  general population  of  any            
disaster; the alert  would transmit to all the  different radio and            
television stations via satellite.                                             
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce asked  how much other states had to  pay to upgrade            
to the system.  Mr. Bus replied that each state was  in a different            
situation; Alaska  was unique because of geographics  and the make-            
up of its radio and television  stations. He recalled that the cost            
ranged between $5,000  and $50,000 for other states.  He offered to            
provide further specific information  through handouts, including a            
graphic display.                                                               
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce asked whether the  federal government was told that            
the  system would  cost  Alaska more  than  other  states. Mr.  Bus            
believed so. He offered to follow up with more detail.                         
                                                                               
Senator Parnell  asked when  it was first  known that  Alaska would            
have to make the expenditure.   Mr. Bus replied that the department            
had been aware  for two years; the  item did not get  in the budget            
and a federal mandate made it  necessary to have the system as soon            
as possible.                                                                   
                                                                               
Senator Parnell asked  whether the item had been  submitted as part            
of the  governor's FY 97 capital  request. Mr. Bus believed  it had            
been.                                                                          
                                                                               
ANNALEE  MCCONNELL,  DIRECTOR,  OFFICE  OF  MANAGEMENT  AND  BUDGET            
(OMB), OFFICE OF  THE GOVERNOR, testified that the  item was one of            
those flagged  throughout the year  because of a  federal deadline;            
it  had been  submitted the  previous year  and then  again in  the            
current year. She added that there  were a number of technology and            
emergency communications  projects the previous year  that she felt            
needed to  be revisited. She  wanted to  go ahead rather  than wait            
until FY 98  because of the nature of the  emergency communications            
difficulties and the federal deadline.                                         
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce  referred to the  $1 million appropriation  for the            
disaster  relief fund  and queried  the base-level  budget for  the            
operations in the area. Mr. Bus  replied that the FY 98 base budget            
for the Division of Emergency Services  would be $585,000. He added            
that  the funding  had been  reserved  out of  the disaster  relief            
fund,  but further  analysis  revealed that  there  was not  enough            
money available.                                                               
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce asked what the  balance would be if only base-level            
operations were done.  Mr. Bus answered that after  the $1 million,            
there  would be  $105 million,  assuming no  further disasters.  He            
added that $585,000 would be reserved for FY 98.                               
                                                                               
Ms.  McConnell pointed  out  that  in the  FY  98 budget,  disaster            
relief and funding  of the Division of Emergency  Services had been            
considered. Modification  was being proposed  for FY 98.  She noted            
that  OMB  would  be  open  to   discussion  with  the  legislature            
regarding   a  different   arrangement   for   funding  both   fire            
suppression and disaster needs.  She stressed that the supplemental            
request was needed because of the coming flood season.                         
                                                                               
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES                                     
                                                                               
JANET  CLARKE,  DIRECTOR,  DIVISION   OF  ADMINISTRATIVE  SERVICES,            
DEPARTMENT  OF HEALTH  AND  SOCIAL  SERVICES (DHSS),  informed  the            
committee that  the request  in Section 5(a)  was for  $939,000 for            
the  adult   public  assistance   program.  The  program   provided            
financial assistance to approximately  11,500 elderly, poor, blind,            
and disabled  people per month.  The program was closely  linked to            
the supplemental  security income  program (a federal  program) and            
followed  most of  the  same rules.  The program  had  not had  the            
volatile swings in  caseload experienced by other  programs such as            
Aide for  Dependant Children  (AFDC). The  adult public  assistance            
program  experienced stable  growth throughout  the 1990s,  ranging            
from 7 to 9.1 percent.                                                         
                                                                               
Ms.  Clarke  pointed  out  that the  previous  year's  request  was            
reduced  by  $1.3  million.  The   department  anticipated  needing            
$939,000 to  continue making  payments for  the program.  She added            
that  the  program  was  an entitlement  program  and  the  payment            
standard was set by state law.                                                 
                                                                               
Senator  Phillips  clarified  that  the  amount  was  approximately            
$11,500  per  month. He  thought  the  figure had  previously  been            
around $8,000.  He wondered whether  there was another  category of            
people included  in the  exemption. Ms.  Clarke replied  that there            
were 7,000  disabled people and  4,000 elderly. She offered  to get            
more information.                                                              
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp   queried  mandates   related  to  Social   Security            
Insurance (SSI) in  the previous year's budget.  Ms. Clarke replied            
that the department had not been  aware of changes when considering            
the previous  year's budget.  The department had  built in  a small            
reduction in its request to reflect  the estimated amount of people            
that would  not use  adult public  assistance.  She noted that  the            
supplemental request  could be reduced, depending on  the amount of            
people that  would not  qualify. She  stressed that the  department            
was taking  a conservative  approach to the  number of  people that            
would not receive the assistance.                                              
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp  thought  the  numbers  would  drop  off  for  those            
disabled because  of drug or alcohol  use. Ms. Clarke  replied that            
the people  described were  included in  the $100,000 reduction  in            
the  request.  She added  that  the  situation would  be  monitored            
closely; the supplemental could be reduced.                                    
                                                                               
Co-Chair  Pearce  asked  what  other  fund  balances  were  in  the            
appropriation for adult public assistance.  Ms. Clarke replied that            
the  other   programs  in  the  assistance   payment  appropriation            
included  AFDC and  the  general lease  assistance  appropriations.            
After  consideration, the  department  did not  believe there  were            
balances  available  to cover  the  shortfall.  She pointed  to  an            
anticipated in-depth review based  on the quarterly federal-revenue            
report and  noted that  the department would  have a  more accurate            
idea of the balance at the end of February.                                    
                                                                               
Ms.  Clarke turned  to  Section 5(b),  a  $10  million request  for            
federal funds  for the Indian  Health Service (IHS).  She explained            
that the department  had decided to come to the  legislature rather            
than Legislative Budget and Audit  for the component because of the            
significance of its  size. She detailed that the  component was 100            
percent federally funded within  the medical assistance program and            
paid for Medicaid  recipients using IHS facilities.  She added that            
in FY  96, the  Healthcare Financing  Administration had  agreed to            
raise  the rates  for IHS  facilities, resulting  in a  significant            
increase in  federal funds in  FY 97 and  a supplemental for  FY 96            
because  the  provision was  made  retroactive  to January  1.  The            
department had discovered  that it had not raised  authority enough            
to  pass  it on  to  the  IHS facilities.  In  addition,  increased            
utilization of the program had been underestimated.                            
                                                                               
Ms. Clarke  continued that  the Medicaid program  was a  50 percent            
state/federal  match program;  the more the  state could  encourage            
Medicaid recipients  to use IHS facilities, the  federal government            
would  pay  100  percent.  The  long-term  plan  to  contain  costs            
included encouraging more use of the facilities.                               
                                                                               
Senator Sharp asked  whether there would be offsets  because of the            
50/50  share.  Ms. Clarke  replied  that  the rate  the  Healthcare            
Financing  Administration   agreed  to   pay  IHS   facilities  had            
basically  doubled; the  rate went  from  around $500  per day  for            
inpatient care  to $1,000 per day,  which was more in  keeping with            
the normal market  rate. She noted that there was  not an increment            
increase in  FY 97 for  the department  and that usually  there was            
growth  in the amount  required  to pay for  hospitals and  nursing            
homes. There was  not an increment in FY 98 because  of the savings            
due to the increased federal receipts.                                         
                                                                               
Ms. Clarke turned  to Section 5(c), $1 million for  the foster care            
program. She detailed  that the program was established  in statute            
and was  available  so that the  department could  arrange for  the            
care of every child in its custody.  She noted that foster care was            
not for children in trouble or  juvenile delinquents, but for those            
who were  victims of abuse  and neglect.  The request was  in three            
parts. The governor's  request the previous year  was $200,000 over            
what the Conference Committee funded  and accounted for part of the            
shortfall.                                                                     
                                                                               
Ms. Clarke  detailed that  the second item  related to  a discovery            
made during the previous nine months  related to troubled and high-            
cost  children.   She  noted  that  depending  on   the  geographic            
differential, foster-care payments  ranged from $25 to $30 per day;            
some  of  the  payments  were supplemented.  She  argued  that  the            
program  was fairly  cost-effective compared  to a  hospital or  an            
institutional setting, which could cost up to $800 per day.                    
                                                                               
Ms. Clarke  relayed  that the third  component  was related  to the            
department  underestimating  the  utilization  of the  foster  care            
program.  She  detailed  that  in   the  early  1990s,  there  were            
significant  supplemental requests  for foster care;  re-evaluating            
the program  had resulted  in several years  of reduced  costs. The            
steady 5 percent growth rate did not continue for FY 97.                       
                                                                               
Ms.  Clarke  presented  a  profile  of  a  high-cost  foster  child            
prepared by  the division to  help understand the  increased costs.            
The profile described  Frank,  a  child with an attachment disorder            
who came  to the  department at  the age of  six. School  staff had            
described him  as frequently absent,  physically dirty,  and having            
many bruises  and scars  on his  body. Investigation revealed  that            
Frank had  been severely abused  physically and sexually  abused by            
his parents. He was placed in  a foster home, but had to be removed            
after he  killed the foster family's  pet cat and tried  to smother            
their  baby. Two  other foster  placements  ended similarly.  There            
were  also fire-setting  incidents.  Frank was  placed  in a  group            
home. At  age twelve,  he became  unmanageable and assaulted  staff            
with  a knife  stolen from  the kitchen.  He was  transported to  a            
psychiatric  bed at  a community  hospital, and  then to a  private            
facility in Anchorage.  He had been in the private  hospital longer            
than was authorized  by Medicaid. The Division of  Family and Youth            
Services was paying for Frank's  care out of the foster care budget            
until a  suitable place could  be found  for him. While  normal in-            
patient psychiatric  costs can be $800 per day,  the department had            
negotiated a  cost of $300 per  day with the private  facility, but            
the rate was still high.                                                       
                                                                               
Co-chair  Pearce queried  what  had happened  to  the parents.  Ms.            
Clarke offered to find out.                                                    
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp  asked  when  the  budget  responsibility  would  be            
transferred  to another mental  health budget.  Ms. Clarke  replied            
that there had  been activity working with the  mental health board            
and the Alaska  Mental Health Trust Authority to  look at different            
models  of care.  One suggestion  was more  secure facilities  than            
group homes  at around $50 per  day. She noted that  division staff            
was looking for a middle solution for the children.                            
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp  thought  the suggestion  distorted  the  notion  of            
budgeting for  foster care because  of the symptoms  being treated.            
He asked  whether the second and  third foster sets of  parents had            
been told  about Frank's  problems.  Ms. Clarke  did not know.  She            
offered to get more details.                                                   
                                                                               
Senator Phillips  asked whether  Frank would  be in an  institution            
for  the  rest of  his  life,  given past  experience.  Ms.  Clarke            
replied  that in  the past,  such  young people  were sent  out-of-            
state,  which   propelled  the  Alaska  youth-initiative   program;            
funding  was  provided  from  the   Department  of  Education,  the            
Division of  Mental Health,  and the Division  of Family  and Youth            
Services. The  intent of the program  was to keep young  people out            
of institutions and provide "wrap-around"  services. She noted that            
the  department  had  been  finding  that  the  situation  for  the            
described  young  people was  becoming  more  severe. Some  of  the            
placements  were not  working out.  She  did not  know whether  the            
child would be in an institution for the rest of his life.                     
                                                                               
Senator  Parnell  pointed  to backup  materials  stating  that  the            
division had experienced escalated  numbers of children with severe            
emotional and behavioral  needs. He questioned whether  foster care            
was changing  and what was happening  to cause the  escalation. Ms.            
Clarke answered  that she was not  qualified to assess  the trends.            
She thought  the discussion  regarding whether  a child  in custody            
was a Division  of Family and Youth Services child  or just a child            
with a lot of needs, including  mental health needs. She noted that            
the department  could be  bound by  appropriations and  categorical            
funding;  coming  up with  ways  to  break  down the  barriers  was            
challenging. She offered to get more information about trends.                 
                                                                               
Senator  Parnell queried  the  extent of  the  problem. Ms.  Clarke            
replied  that the  foster-care budget  was $10.8  million, while  a            
single child with  significant problems could cost  up to $200,000.            
She  offered  to get  more  information  about  the extent  of  the            
problem.                                                                       
                                                                               
Senator Sharp noted  that the increase would be  around 10 percent.            
He asked whether any portion of  the foster-care budget was covered            
by federal  funds or match funds.  Ms. Clarke responded  that there            
were significant  federal dollars, including Title  IV(e) funds for            
qualifying foster kids.                                                        
                                                                               
Senator Sharp  queried the availability  of matching funds  for the            
million dollar  request. Ms. Clarke  responded that part of  the FY            
97 request  was an increase  in the  federal share; it  was already            
built into the  budget. The increment in federal  funds was already            
received. She pointed  out that Title IV(e) was  not a strict-match            
program;  it  was  available  only for  kids  who  were  considered            
eligible. For  those who  qualified, there was  a 50  percent match            
requirement. In Alaska, approximately  40 percent of kids in foster            
care qualified for the funds; the state received 50 percent.                   
                                                                               
Ms. Clarke turned  to Section 5(d), a request for  $685,000 for the            
McLaughlin Youth Center. The center  had a 150-bed capacity; during            
the fall it had housed around  180. For January, the average number            
of clients  escalated to 192 kids.  She reported that  the crowding            
was  mainly occurring  in  the detention  unit,  not the  long-term            
open-campus  unit.  The  detention  unit  currently  had  a  35-bed            
capacity,  but occupancy  had  been  70 to  90  kids. In  addition,            
increased staff was required because of the overcrowding.                      
                                                                               
Ms. Clarke  pointed to backup  materials with a  chart illustrating            
the  changing  population  at  McLaughlin  Youth  Center  that  had            
necessitated higher  requests for funding.  In the past,  there had            
been seasonal downturns  during the summers. She noted  a small dip            
during  the previous  summer,  which did  not  correspond with  the            
typical  large  dips  of  the   past.  For  funding  purposes,  the            
department had anticipated the usual  significant summer reduction,            
which did  not occur.  Another concern was  the increased  need for            
staff to  keep the  facility safe  as well  as increased needs  for            
food and other commodities.                                                    
                                                                               
Senator Parnell  wondered whether  there had been  a time  when the            
residence  was not  staffed around  the clock.  Ms. Clarke  replied            
that the  facility had always been  staffed 24 hours each  day. The            
backup  materials were  alluding to  overtime costs  needed in  the            
past because  of the  inability to fill  positions. She  noted that            
there were different  kinds of kids in the center,  including older            
kids  that preyed  on younger  kids, and  girls, who  needed to  be            
separated from the boys.                                                       
                                                                               
Senator Parnell  pointed to backup  materials saying that  when the            
center was  not over capacity,  some of  the posts could  be manned            
during daylight  hours and  not at night.  He asked  for background            
information. Ms.  Clarke replied  that the described  situation had            
probably occurred in July 1993.                                                
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp asked  how  many positions  were  added. Ms.  Clarke            
answered that  on-call staff had  been added, not  permanent staff.            
She added that the on-call staff  was becoming like permanent staff            
and the issue would have to be revisited.                                      
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp hoped  that overtime  would be  replaced as much  as            
possible. Ms. Clarke agreed.                                                   
                                                                               
DEPARTMENT OF LAW                                                            
                                                                               
FRED  FISHER,   DIRECTOR,  DIVISION  OF  ADMINISTRATIVE   SERVICES,            
DEPARTMENT OF LAW,  informed the committee that Section  6(a) was a            
request for  a lapsed-date  extension for  an amount pertaining  to            
outside counsel  contracts for oil  and gas litigation  support. He            
detailed that  under AS  37.25, a  valid obligation or  encumbrance            
existing  on June  30  was  automatically re-appropriated  for  the            
subsequent fiscal year.  He noted that the issue  pertained to what            
could be done to  the amounts validly encumbered as  of June 30. He            
pointed  to an  apparent disagreement  between the  agency and  the            
legislative  auditor as  to whether  the  contracts for  litigation            
support were severable after the  fiscal year. At the end of FY 96,            
only the amounts associated with  two contracts for outside counsel            
services  were encumbered  and  were  involved in  the  lapsed-date            
extension.  All other  amounts remaining  unexpended  or that  were            
encumbered  for other  purposes as  of  the time  were lapsed.  The            
amount  constituted about  $1.9 million.  He pointed  out that  the            
legislature  had   adopted  similar  language  the   previous  year            
allowing the department to extend  the lapse date for FY 95 through            
the end of FY 96.                                                              
                                                                               
Senator   Parnell  referred   to  the   disagreement  between   the            
department and  the legislature  regarding the mechanism  and asked            
whether the department  would use the mechanism in  the future. Mr.            
Fisher believed  the department would  not use the  mechanism again            
after the present year.                                                        
                                                                               
BARBARA   RITCHIE,  DEPUTY   ATTORNEY   GENERAL,  CIVIL   DIVISION,            
DEPARTMENT  OF LAW,  agreed that  the  current usage  was the  last            
time.  She  testified  that the  department  intended  to  continue            
bringing down  the oil and gas  budget to reflect the  ramping down            
of case activity.                                                              
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce noted  that legal staff had informed  the committee            
that it would  need a three-quarter vote on the  particular section            
of  the supplemental  budget  because the  funding  source was  the            
Constitutional Budget  Reserve (CBR) and  had been for a  number of            
years. She  understood that  staff had asked  Mr. Baldwin  to offer            
other ideas,  but she had not  seen anything. She pointed  out that            
the  title of the  bill would  need to  change to  include the  CBR            
appropriation provision.                                                       
                                                                               
Co-chair  Pearce  asked  Ms.  Clarke   from  DHSS  to  address  the            
ratification section  before continuing with the Department  of Law            
(Section 11, subsection 3, accounting system ratifications).                   
                                                                               
Ms. Clarke  provided background  regarding ratifications.  When the            
state  converted to  the current  accounting system,  there were  a            
number of  negative allocations  that continued  on the  books. The            
Department of  Health and  Social Services had  not cleaned  up the            
negatives, although  the items had been paid. The  previous spring,            
a  report by  OMB  showed  over $6  million  for DHSS.  There  were            
positive allocations  negating negative  allocations; however,  the            
positive would lapse and the negative  would remain. The last items            
[in Section 11]  included an over-expenditure caused  by the use of            
a field warrant.                                                               
                                                                               
[SFC-97, Tape 37, Side B]                                                      
                                                                               
Ms. Clarke detailed  that there were several ways  to pay expenses.            
One was using a  general warrant. A field warrant  did not have the            
same control;  a field  warrant was certified  and issued,  and the            
information was input  after the fact. In the  example, the warrant            
was $0.07 over after the fact.  She assured the committee that DHSS            
had dropped the use of field warrants  by 85 percent since 1989 and            
1990 [when the problems occurred].                                             
                                                                               
Ms.  Clarke  added  that many  over-expenditures  were  related  to            
revenues that did not come in.  For example, an item for a Medicaid            
facility   (Harborview)   reflected  inaccurate   expectations   of            
payments from federal sources.                                                 
                                                                               
Co-chair  Pearce queried  a  $191,000 item  from  1995. Ms.  Clarke            
answered  that  the  item  was   a  recommendation  in  the  FY  96            
legislative  audit,  requesting  receipt  of  a  ratification.  She            
reported that the  item had been paid and was  a revenue shortfall.            
The  shortfall was  the result  of a  failure to  report and  claim            
eligible expenditures.  The department  had a two-year  window; for            
some reason, out of the millions  of dollars that were claimed, the            
item  did not  get  claimed  on time  for  the federal  share.  The            
federal share in the appropriation was significantly higher.                   
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce  clarified that the $191,000 represented  a portion            
of the federal  share that had not been claimed  by the department.            
Ms.  Clarke  explained  that  for   matching  information  systems,            
Medicaid  usually   got  90  percent  federal   participation.  The            
department  had large appropriations  in the  past when  the system            
was brought up; the one item was  not claimed on time for a portion            
of the activity.                                                               
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce asked what the  department was doing to assure that            
the shortfall was  not repeated. Ms. Clarke answered  that the item            
was a capital item  and that the department was much  more adept at            
claiming  operating  funds.  She   added  that  DHSS  was  building            
claiming  procedures  to make  sure  that  the capital  items  were            
identified up-front.                                                           
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce  turned attention  back to  the Department  of Law.            
She  noted that  there  were two  other  sections, subsection  (b);            
subsection  (c)  was already  gone.  She  turned to  judgments  and            
claims.                                                                        
                                                                               
Ms. Ritchie  explained that the  section reflected the  $97,072 for            
judgments and claims that the department  had processed at the time            
the bill was prepared; since that time there had been a few more.              
                                                                               
Senator Parnell  referred to the  list of judgments and  claims and            
asked whether the amounts were  judgment or settlement amounts. Ms.            
Ritchie  replied that  most  of the  items  were judgment  amounts.            
Items  that were  settlement amounts  for  the most  part had  been            
affirmed by the court involved and signed off as a judgment.                   
                                                                               
Senator  Parnell asked  whether the  items were  fixed and  queried            
interest  calculations.  Ms.  Ritchie answered  that  the  interest            
calculation was from whenever the  judgment became interest-bearing            
through June 30, 1997, in order  to estimate when the payment would            
be made.  She noted that  other than  interest beyond June  30, the            
amounts would not change.                                                      
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce requested an explanation  of each item. Ms. Ritchie            
went through the list:                                                         
                                                                               
   1. Judgment totaling $4,690.03 related to the Knowles case,                 
      litigation  regarding  the  CBR.  The  amount  reflected  the            
      resolution  of  the  remaining   issues  in  the  litigation,            
      including the attorney  fees incurred in connection  with the            
      enforcement  and verification  work done  after entry  of the            
      court's order.  The work was done  to ensure that  the proper            
      funds were  being deposited into  the CBR. The  payment would            
      be made  to the  attorney firm  for the  plaintiff, Pope  and            
      Katcher.                                                                 
   2. Kenai Peninsula Borough School District v. State of Alaska               
      Department  of   Labor  judgment  at  $1,327.51   (total  and            
      interest). The  case involved a  woman who was  determined by            
      the department to be entitled to  unemployment insurance; the            
      decision was appealed by the school  district that determined            
      she was  ineligible for  the benefit.  The Department  of Law            
      opposed the motion for attorney  fees and costs and the court            
      disallowed the costs but awarded  attorney fees in the amount            
      reflected.                                                               
   3. O'Callaghan v. Coghill judgment at $28,248; $31,519 with                 
      interest  through  June  30 payable  to  Max  Gruenberg.  The            
      litigation related to the change  to the blanket primary rule            
      to  close the  primary.  The  state  of Alaska  prevailed  in            
      superior court; the Alaska Supreme  Court reversed the ruling            
      and reinstated the open blanket  primary rule. The plaintiffs            
      had  requested  $40,000  in  attorney  fees;  the  department            
      defended against that,  taking the position that  nothing was            
      owed.  The court  ordered  attorney  fees  in the  amount  of            
      $25,000. The  department did not  contest the  amount awarded            
      to O'Callaghan  although it did  object to costs,  which were            
      not granted.                                                             
                                                                               
Senator  Parnell queried  the total  awarded.  Ms. Ritchie  replied            
that  the award  was for  nearly $27,000  in attorney  fees to  the            
Alaska Voters  for Open Primaries  (represented by  Max Gruenberg),            
and costs at $1,400.                                                           
                                                                               
Ms. Ritchie continued with the list:                                           
                                                                               
   4. Alaska v. Native Village of Venetie at $13,109.12 (including             
      interest)  to  the Alaska  Legal  Services  Corporation.  The            
      award was  by the U.S.  district court  for costs  that arose            
      out of the  first of three  Venetie cases. Venetie I  was the            
      adoption case and was remanded  out of the ninth circuit back            
      to the district court for a trial  on tribal status in Indian            
      country. Venetie I was consolidated  with Venetie II, the tax            
      case which was also remanded. Following  the trial, the judge            
      held that  Venetie had established  the criteria  for common-            
      law status as  an Indian tribe, a different  ruling than what            
      later happened  in the  Fort Yukon  case where Judge  Holland            
      determined  that  Fort  Yukon  was a  tribe  based  upon  its            
      inclusion on the Bureau of Indian  (BIA) list of tribes first            
      published in 1993.  The amount represented costs;  the entire            
      attorney fees  award was  disallowed by  the district  court.            
      The  court determined  that  Alaska  Legal Services  was  not            
      allowed  because what  they were  actually  asserting was  an            
      issue related to sovereign powers,  which was not an issue to            
      which  they were  entitled  to fees  under  federal law.  The            
      attorneys  were  asserting a  deprivation  of  constitutional            
      rights under  42  U.S.C. 1983,  which would  entitle them  to            
      fees.  The  court  disagreed  and said  the  case  was  about            
      sovereign powers and not entitled  to fees. She corrected the            
      earlier number to $11,000 for costs.                                     
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce clarified that the  money was going to Alaska Legal            
Services. Ms. Ritchie agreed, and  added that the money was for the            
costs associated  with the  trial when the  case was  remanded from            
the ninth circuit.                                                             
                                                                               
Senator Parnell asked who Alaska  Legal Services represented in the            
case. Ms. Ritchie  answered that the Native Village  of Venetie was            
represented.   Senator   Parnell   asked  why;   he   thought   the            
organization  represented indigent  Alaskan  citizens. Ms.  Ritchie            
offered to check.  She noted that the village  was represented; two            
individually  named  plaintiffs  were  Nancy  Joseph  and  Margaret            
Solomon. She added that the attorney fees issue was under appeal.              
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson  asked whether Alaska Legal Services  was allowed            
by Alaska  statute to  represent a  village. Senator Parnell  noted            
that individuals  were named.  Ms. Ritchie  agreed that  there were            
individual plaintiffs  in the adoption  case where  the individuals            
were seeking  to have  the state recognize  a tribal  adoption. The            
issue was  whether the tribe  had the  power and whether  the state            
was required  to recognized the  adoption. She offered to  get more            
information.                                                                   
                                                                               
Ms. Ritchie continued with the next item on the list:                          
                                                                               
   5. Phoolan v. United Fishermen, the litigation that arose from              
      the   fish   initiative.  The   plaintiffs   challenged   the            
      lieutenant governor's  certification  of the fish  initiative            
      for  placement on  the  November  1996 ballot.  The  superior            
      court upheld  the certification,  the plaintiffs  appealed to            
      the Alaska  Supreme Court,  which reversed  the decision  and            
      enjoined the lieutenant governor  from placing the initiative            
      on  the  ballot.  The  issue in  the  case  was  whether  the            
      initiative called  for an appropriation. The  state prevailed            
      in  its opposition  to  the  plaintiffs' request  for  public            
      interest   litigant  status   and  also   prevailed  in   its            
      opposition  to  the co-defendant  FISH,  Inc.'s  request  for            
      public   interest   status.   The   department   successfully            
      challenged  the request  for  full  attorney fees  as  public            
      interest  litigants, resulting  in  savings  of $16,000.  The            
      department was also successful in  opposition to FISH, Inc.'s            
      attempt to  shift all  liability  for costs  and fees to  the            
      state; as  a result the state  was responsible for  only half            
      the costs and attorney fees. The  state's co-defendant, FISH,            
      Inc., was  liable for the  other half. Therefore,  the amount            
     for fees and costs was around $1,300 with the interest.                   
                                                                               
Senator  Phillips queried  the attorney fees.  Ms. Ritchie  replied            
that the amount  of $1,350 would be payable to  Arthur Robertson of            
Soldotna. She  thought that  Av Gross  represented the  sponsors of            
the initiative and  Arthur Robinson represented the  group that did            
not want  the initiative on the  ballot. The state  was represented            
by Jim Baldwin and Sarah Felix.                                                
                                                                               
Ms. Ritchie continued with the next item on the list:                          
                                                                               
   6. McClosker v. State, Department of Revenue, amounting with                
      interest to  $1,411.15.  The case  came from  an appeal  of a            
      permanent fund  dividend determination.  The amount  would be            
      payable  to  a   lawyer  in  Fairbanks.  In   the  case,  the            
      Department of Revenue  denied a 1994 permanent  fund dividend            
      application  for a  woman's  son; she  appealed,  and it  was            
      determined  that   the  department  had  applied   the  wrong            
      regulation.  When  the  case  was  appealed,  the  error  was            
      apparent, but  the appellant had  already incurred  full fees            
      and costs at about $3,100. The  department did not pursue the            
      case further, as  the error was apparent. There  was an award            
      of attorney fees and costs of $1,300.                                    
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp queried  the  source of  the  funds. The  department            
believed  the funds  came from  the permanent  fund. Senator  Sharp            
thought the amount should be paid  as part of the administration of            
the permanent fund as it was caused  by an erroneous rejection. Mr.            
Fisher (?) replied that the department could look into the issue.              
                                                                               
Ms. Ritchie continued with the list:                                           
                                                                               
   7. Alaska Public Employees Association v. State of Alaska, an               
      attorney fees  award of $1,000  entered by the  state supreme            
      court. In the case there was  an arbitration award some years            
      ago that would  require that the Department  of Environmental            
      Conservation  (DEC) enable  Mr. Long to  have certain  duties            
      with respect  to  pipeline terminal  oversight; DEC  appealed            
      the  decision to  superior  court, which  prevailed.  Further            
      appeal  to the  Alaska  Supreme  Court reversed  the  ruling,            
      indicating  that  the  arbitrator's award  should  have  been            
      upheld. The  court entered  an award  of $1,000 for  attorney            
      fees.                                                                    
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce asked whether Mr. Long was back on the job. Ms.                
Ritchie answered that she did not know, but believed he was.                   
                                                                               
Ms. Ritchie continued:                                                         
                                                                               
   8. National Education Association v. Mark Boyer. The case began             
      several   years  ago   in   1991.  The   National   Education            
      Association  (NEA) brought  a class-action  suit against  the            
      Public  Employees  Retirement  System   (PERS)  and  Teachers            
      Retirement System  (TRS), challenging  the statutes  relating            
      to  medical   benefits  and   the  automatic   cost-of-living            
      increases, as  well as the  failure of various  commissioners            
      of administration under Governors  Cooper and Hickel to award            
      discretionary cost-of-living increases.  The department filed            
      motions  for summary  judgment  on the  statutory issues  and            
      prevailed;  however, they  were  not able  to obtain  summary            
      judgment on  the discretionary  cost-of-living increases.  On            
      the  cost-of-living   issue,  the  department  ended   up  in            
      settlement negotiations  with  the parties  at the urging  of            
      the state superior court and was  able to reach a settlement.            
      Any resolution of the case required  court approval, since it            
      was a class-action  suit. As part of the  resolution, the TRS            
      and PERS systems  agreed to pay NEA's attorney  fees relating            
      to the case in  the amount of $7,500. The case  was major and            
      involved   potentially   significant    liability   for   the            
      retirement systems;  significant effort  was put  into trying            
      to defend  the case  and resolve  the issues. The  retirement            
      systems prevailed  on the  statutory issues;  as part  of the            
      settlement, the plaintiffs agreed  not to appeal the superior            
      court's  rulings on  the  summary  judgment with  respect  to            
      those issues.  The rulings  were binding  on virtually  every            
      member of  the PERS  and TRS systems,  which were  liable for            
      about $7,500 in attorney fees.  Since the potential liability            
      was  much greater,  the department  felt  the resolution  was            
      beneficial.                                                              
                                                                               
Senator Phillips queried the names of the players. Ms. Ritchie                 
replied that the attorney in the NEA case was Don Clocksin.                    
                                                                               
Senator Sharp asked whether PERS and TRS would pay the bill. Ms.               
Ritchie answered in the affirmative. She continued with the list:              
                                                                               
   9. Capital Information Group v. State of Alaska Office of the               
      Governor.  The   lawyers   in  the  case   for  the   Capital            
      Information  Group included  Greg  Erickson,  Jeff Bush,  and            
      Doug Pope. Ms. Ritchie represented  the state. The case arose            
      in  1993 in  Governor  Hickel's administration.  The  Capital            
      Information Group had requested under  the Public Records Act            
      that the governor's office provide  certain documents related            
      to budget development  and proposed legislation  prior to the            
      governor making  decisions  about the issues.  The Office  of            
      the  Governor  denied   access  to  the   records,  asserting            
      deliberative  process and  executive  privilege, because  the            
      items  were  prepared   by  the  department  heads   and  the            
      governor's policy  advisors for the governor's  consideration            
      in  setting  policy  with respect  to  budget  decisions  and            
      whether particular  pieces  of legislation  should go  to the            
      legislature.  The  Capital  Information  Group  appealed  the            
      initial decision  to  the chief  of staff  in the  governor's            
      office; the  appeal was denied,  and the group  brought suit.            
      In  the  superior   court  the  group  initially   sought  an            
      injunction, which was denied; petition  to the Alaska Supreme            
      Court  was also  denied.  A motion  for  summary judgment  in            
      superior court  on the  deliberative process/privilege  issue            
      was affirmed in total and held  that the process was properly            
      invoked with respect to both types  of documents. The Capital            
      Information  Group  appealed  to the  Alaska  Supreme  Court,            
      which decided that the legislative  documents were covered by            
      the executive deliberative process/privilege.  She noted that            
      the case was useful in that it  further articulated the scope            
      of the  privilege beyond  what had  been articulated  before.            
      Regarding  the  budget  documents,  the court  pointed  to  a            
      certain provision in the Executive  Budget Act related to all            
      documents  that departments  must  submit to  the  OMB to  be            
      incorporated  into   the  governor's   proposed  budget   and            
      determined that documents were public  once submitted to OMB.            
      The  court  said   that  the  statutory   provision  balanced            
      deliberative process and privileges  with public interest and            
      disclosure.  The   legislature  had  already   achieved  that            
      balance   and  had   decided  that   public  disclosure   was            
      appropriate. Therefore,  the court  said the legislature  had            
      the authority  to adopt the  statute. The documents  were now            
      public once they  were submitted to OMB.  Capital Information            
      Group was a public-interest litigant  in the case, and so was            
      entitled  to full  reasonable attorney  fees. They  initially            
      claimed  a total  of  $36,000  in  fees ($16,000  before  the            
      supreme court and  a little over $20,000 before  the superior            
      court);  the  issue  was  resolved   through  settlement  and            
      $10,000 was paid  for the supreme court work  and $10,000 for            
      the superior  court work. The state  prevailed on one  of the            
      issues:  the  appellate  in the  supreme  court  had  largely            
      focused on the budget documents,  so the larger percentage of            
      the supreme court work reflected  concentration on the budget            
      issue.                                                                   
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce queried the lower court request for a temporary                
restraining  order (TRO).  Ms. Ritchie replied  that an  injunction            
was being sought; they were trying  to require the executive branch            
to release the documents.                                                      
                                                                               
Senator  Phillips  asked for  the  definition of  "public  interest            
litigant  and wanted to know who  could use it. Ms. Ritchie replied            
that in the cited  instance, case law was on point  with respect to            
the ability of  the press to establish itself as  a public interest            
litigant. She offered to get more information.                                 
                                                                               
Senator Sharp  summarized his understanding  of the case  and asked            
how a case could be expanded as  it worked through the process. Ms.            
Ritchie  replied  that  the  case was  not  expanded.  The  Capital            
Information   Group  initially   sought  two  things:   legislative            
proposals  that came  to  OMB from  various  department heads  pre-            
session,  and  budget  impact memoranda  (OMB  had  issued  certain            
allocations  to each  department  asking the  impact  of getting  a            
given amount of  money and recommendations). In  the development of            
the  budget, volumes  of information  were  produced. The  superior            
court viewed the  request as continuing; the state  was required to            
maintain and catalog all the information.  In that way, the request            
expanded  the process.  In the  final analysis,  however, both  the            
supreme court and superior court  focused back on the budget impact            
memoranda that had been requested by OMB.                                      
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson  asked the definition of "submitted"  (related to            
the information becoming  public when it was submitted  to OMB). He            
wondered  whether the  process  referred to  hard  copy, email,  or            
conversation.  Ms. Ritchie replied  that the  court ruling  did not            
answer  to  that  level  of detail;  following  the  decision,  the            
Department  of  Law  discussed the  interpretation  with  OMB.  The            
statute  stipulated  that  OMB   ask  for  information  in  putting            
together the budget,  and once the information came  to OMB, it was            
public. She  did not think  it mattered  at that point  whether the            
information was  paper or electronic.  She noted that  the statutes            
were  created before  the proliferation  of electronic  technology,            
but she  did not think  it mattered.  Once the information  went to            
OMB, the governor  would use the material for  the proposed budget.            
Prior  to   the  information   being  received,   there  would   be            
discussions related to the budget.                                             
                                                                               
Senator  Torgerson wondered  what the actual  submission meant.  He            
had heard  recently from different  agencies that not much  was put            
on paper  because they  did not want  the information  released. He            
believed   OMB  was   involved  in   putting  together   individual            
department  budgets,  but  the information  was  not  submitted  on            
paper.  He asked  whether  a policy  had  been developed  regarding            
submission. Ms. Ritchie reported  that during the current year, the            
documents were submitted  to OMB around mid-November.  She believed            
the  governor   had  delayed   his  presentation   to  the   public            
considerably as a  result of the court decision. She  did not think            
the amount put  in writing differed from other  years, although the            
ruling affected what the statute meant.                                        
                                                                               
Co-chair  Pearce questioned  why information  a department  gave to            
OMB should not be confidential  until the governor reviewed it. She            
opined that that  would affect the budget process  and prevent open            
discussion. As the  budgets got tighter, departments  would have to            
prioritize and  might not  be willing to  do so if  the information            
was made public. She wanted to  know the legal reason for the court            
decision.  Ms. Ritchie  replied  that the  state  had made  similar            
arguments  and that  the court  had applied  similar analysis  with            
respect  to   the  legislative  documents.  Regarding   the  budget            
documents,  the court  held that  the materials  met the  threshold            
requirements for  the privilege, that they were  pre-decisional and            
deliberative.   She   believed   that  absent   the   statute   (AS            
37.07.050(g)),  the   court  would   have  held  that   those  were            
deliberative  documents in  the  same manner  that the  legislative            
proposals were at the time.                                                    
                                                                               
[SFC-97, Tape 38, Side A]                                                      
                                                                               
Ms. Ritchie  continued to describe  the timing of the  process. She            
thought that getting  input from the commissioners was  part of the            
process. The  difference was the  existence of the statute  and the            
Executive Budget Act, which stipulated  that the information became            
public once  it was forwarded to  OMB (the information  required to            
be  submitted by  departments  to  OMB). The  court  held that  the            
legislature  had the  authority  to adopt  the  statute. The  state            
argued that  the statute violated  separation of powers  because it            
superseded the  deliberative process  privilege; with  the statute,            
there was not deliberative process  privilege in the same manner as            
with other  documents (with respect  to the budget  documents). The            
court held that the legislature  had the authority under the Alaska            
Constitution  "to  allocate  executive   department  functions  and            
duties  among  offices,  departments,  and agencies  of  the  state            
government." In  addition, the  enactment of the  statute allocated            
executive  branch  functions;  it  was  within  the  power  of  the            
legislature  to   enact  the  statute,  and  in   doing  that,  the            
legislature had already applied  the balancing test with respect to            
the need for a deliberative period  of time and the need for public            
access to the information.                                                     
                                                                               
[Unidentified  speaker]  described  her  related  experience.  When            
discussing the  budget process at  the state level with  staff, she            
would point  out that  the budget documents  were submitted  to OMB            
and  then decisions  would be  made  about the  various items.  She            
noted that it wasted  time to submit items that  would be rejected.            
In  a  previous  job  as  the   director  of  the  municipality  of            
Anchorage,  she  had  worked to  get  information  more  informally            
before  having departments  prepare  the  detail.  She agreed  that            
ideas might  not be brought  forward that had  to be put  on paper.            
She opined  that a more creative  process could be  more productive            
and  that in  the  first year,  verbal  information was  encouraged            
(this was  before the Capital  Information Group case).  She agreed            
that  the resolution  of the  lawsuit  had heightened  the need  to            
figure out how to  go through the process in a way  that both meets            
the  state  supreme  court requirements  and  meets  the  practical            
workings of government.                                                        
                                                                               
Co-chair  Pearce  referred  to   early  testimony  by  Ms.  Ritchie            
regarding  public-interest  litigants.   She  understood  that  the            
courts felt  that the press  had an  ability to get  to information            
that was  available to all. She  queried the parameters of  a group            
such as the  Capital Information Group related  to information. Ms.            
Ritchie  responded  that  the  Capital   Information  Group  had  a            
publication with subscribers. The  issue in the case was the Alaska            
Budget Report.  She pointed  out that  there were criteria  related            
the  numbers of  subscribers;  the  Capital Information  Group  met            
criteria  for qualifying  as  "press." The  concept  for the  press            
being  a  public-interest  litigant  was  that  they  were  seeking            
information on  behalf of  the public who  were their  readers. She            
offered to get more information on public-interest status.                     
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce  asked whether there  was provision in the  law for            
reporting versus  analyzing or  interpreting. Ms. Ritchie  answered            
that she did not believe so. She continued with the list:                      
                                                                               
   10. [Case name unintelligible] for $2,000 plus interest attorney            
      fees award. The state's lawyer  was Robert Royce, who handled            
      most of the  human-rights appeals  that end up in  court. The            
      lawyer  for  the   appellant  was  Christian   Bataille  from            
      Fairbanks. In  the case, the  plaintiff had appealed  a human            
      rights commission  determination  that dismissed  two of  his            
      administrative   complaints;  the   allegation  was   on  age            
      discrimination. The case was appealed  to superior court; the            
      determination  was that  the complaints  probably should  not            
      have been dismissed. The amount  of attorney fees awarded was            
      half the amount requested.                                               
   11. An appeal from the Alaska Commercial Fisheries Entry                    
      Commission by  Mr. Eckert.  The commission  had declared  Mr.            
      Eckert ineligible to  apply for a commercial  fisheries entry            
      permit.  The  decision  was  based on  a  1978  hearing.  The            
      commission did  not issue its  final decision until  1994. In            
      the meantime, Mr.  Eckert had been issued a  temporary permit            
      and  had  been   fishing.  The  issue  was   whether  he  had            
      established  eligibility  to  file  an  application  for  the            
      permit in  1972. The  lawyer was  from Fortier  and Mikko  in            
      Anchorage. Judge Roland from the  superior court decided that            
      the notice  that was  issued to  Mr. Eckert  in 1976  was not            
      sufficient notice  and did not  give him enough  information.            
      The case  was remanded to the  commission for a  hearing. The            
      superior court did not reach the other issues.                           
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce asked  whether it was normal for  the commission to            
give a temporary permit to anyone  who has appealed the denial of a            
permit. She  wondered whether he  was denied a permit.  Ms. Ritchie            
answered that he  was determined ineligible to apply  for a permit,            
but  he  was issued  a  temporary  one.  She  did not  know  normal            
practice.                                                                      
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce  thought the question was interesting  and wondered            
why a permit would  be granted while eligibility for  one was being            
determined.                                                                    
                                                                               
Senator  Torgerson  queried  the   chain  of  events.  Ms.  Ritchie            
responded  that the  issue in  1972  was whether  the claimant  was            
eligible to apply.  He was given an initial hearing  in 1976, and a            
re-hearing in 1978;  the commission finally issued  its decision in            
1994 and that was appealed to superior court.                                  
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson thought a lot of time had passed.                            
                                                                               
Ms. Ritchie continued with the list:                                           
                                                                               
   12. Michael Brown v. State was a case that arose out of an                  
      appeal  of  a child-support  determination.  The  lawyer  was            
      Kenneth  Kirk in  Anchorage; Rhonda  Butterfield  represented            
      the state.  The  amount was  entered by  Judge Wolverton  for            
      attorney   fees  against   the  state.   The  Child   Support            
      Enforcement  Division   had  administratively   modified  the            
      plaintiff's out-of-state  child-support order and  raised the            
      obligation substantially.  Mr. Brown  did not appeal  at that            
      time; he  asked for  a modification  of child-support  award,            
      but did not provide sufficient  information needed. The Child            
      Support Enforcement  Division began collecting  a substantial            
      amount   of  money   from  the   plaintiff   under  the   new            
      modification  award. Mr. Brown  filed a  lawsuit in  superior            
      court, claiming  that the agency  did not have  the statutory            
      authority to  modify the  court order  of child support.  The            
      agency   argued   that   he   was    attempting   to   appeal            
      administrative  decision, but  was out  of time  and had  not            
      complied  with  procedure.  The case  was  pending  when  the            
      supreme court  issued its  decision in  State [Child  Support            
      Enforcement Division]  v. Dunning; based upon  that decision,            
      the  court  ruled  that the  holding  of  the  supreme  court            
      applied and  granted the relief  requested by  the plaintiff,            
      holding that the provision in Title  25.27.210 authorized the            
      plaintiff  to  go to  the  superior  court to  challenge  the            
      division's decision. Ultimately, the  state filed motions for            
      reconsideration  but was  not  successful.  The judgment  for            
      $2,000 was entered for the plaintiff's attorney fees.                    
   13. Alaska Gun Collectors Association v. State, related to the              
      question of  sale or  destruction of  firearms by  the state.            
      Wayne Anthony  Ross was  the lawyer. The  amount of  the fees            
      was $3,000  with $286 in interest.  In the case,  the parties            
      stipulated  to  a  dismissal  on the  basis  that  state  law            
      provided  that  the  state  may  only  dispose  of  forfeited            
      surplus or  recovered but  unclaimed firearms and  ammunition            
      by sale or trade to a federally-licensed  firearms dealer and            
      that firearms  that  were not  serviceable or  safe would  be            
      destroyed. The issue  brought by the plaintiff  was that they            
      were concerned that the executive  branch would be destroying            
      firearms that  they felt should  be made available  either to            
      gun  collectors or  licensed  firearm  dealers  and that  the            
      destruction of the  firearms would be inappropriate  use of a            
      state  asset.  Since  the  filing   of  the  litigation,  the            
      legislature  had  passed  the  law  clarifying  how  firearms            
      recovered by troopers and police  around the state were to be            
      disposed of.                                                             
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson asked whether the issue was settled. Ms. Ritchie             
answered in the affirmative.                                                   
                                                                               
   14. Carlson v. State. The lawyer for the appellants was Loren               
      Domke and  the state  lawyer was  Steve White.  The case  had            
      been going  on since 1984,  was legally complicated,  and had            
      been to  the  Alaska Supreme  Court twice.  In 1984,  certain            
      non-resident commercial  fishermen  sued the state,  claiming            
      that the  three-to-one ratio  for non-resident fees  violated            
      the  U.S. Constitution.  The  state won  at  the lower  court            
      level.  The Alaska  Supreme  Court remanded  the  case for  a            
      determination of  the appropriate fee differential  under the            
      privileges  and immunities  clause. The  state supreme  court            
      held that  the fee differential  was not inappropriate  under            
      the commerce clause; that issue  was the issue the plaintiffs            
      sought cert  on in the U.S.  Supreme Court, which  refused to            
      take the  case. However,  the privileges  and immunity  issue            
      was  back in  the  superior court  for  a determination.  The            
      court  had laid  out a  formula,  and the  question would  be            
      whether the three-to-one  ratio could be justified  under it.            
      The state  planned to file  a series  of motions in  the case            
      with respect to the issue of refund  of back fees, should the            
      state be  held liable for any  fees; she was  optimistic that            
      this  would   lower  potential   liability  for   the  state.            
      Hopefully, only a prospective issue  would be left. Then, the            
      state would be looking at application  of the formula and how            
      that would  apply  and whether  under the  formula the  ratio            
      laid out in statute  could be justified. She  warned that the            
      case was  still problematic, and  that the state  was working            
      towards resolution. The item listed  represented the attorney            
      fees awarded by the  Alaska Supreme Court as a  result of the            
      most recent hearing on the issue.                                        
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson asked for clarification. Ms. Ritchie pointed to              
the privileges  and immunities  clause, which basically  stipulated            
that a  person who happened  to be in the  state of Alaska  had the            
same privileges  and immunities as  a person in another  state. She            
added that the clause was a provision in the U.S. Constitution.                
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp asked for  clarification.  Ms. Ritchie replied  that            
the superior court  had determined in the most  recent hearing that            
the  differential  was  legal;  that got  appealed  to  the  Alaska            
Supreme Court, which  found the state on one issue  and remanded on            
the  privileges and  immunities  issue, and  laid  out the  formula            
looking  at the  expenses the  state  had put  into the  commercial            
fisheries  and whether  that could  justify  the differential.  The            
appellants  (the commercial  fishers) sought  cert before  the U.S.            
Supreme  Court  on  the  commerce   clause,  which  was  a  federal            
constitutional   issue.   The  appellants   felt   the  issue   was            
inappropriately  decided  by the  Alaska  Supreme  Court. The  U.S.            
Supreme  Court did  not take  the case,  which was  the end of  the            
particular issue. However, the privileges  and immunities issue was            
still in superior  court. The award being discussed  was entered by            
the Alaska  Supreme Court on the  second appeal of the  case, where            
it  determined  that  the  superior  court  was  incorrect  on  the            
privileges  and immunities  issue,  laid out  what it  felt was  an            
appropriate   formula,  and   remanded  the   superior  court   for            
application of  that formula  to the facts  in the case.  She added            
that the  issue was a  major accounting  issue with respect  to the            
sorts of expenses put into the commercial fisheries program.                   
                                                                               
Senator Sharp  thought the appellants  might not win  anything. Ms.            
Ritchie  responded  that  the department  was  hopeful  that  would            
happen, but that it was too early  to know; the state wanted to get            
the issues that could be cleared up out of the way.                            
                                                                               
Co-chair  Pearce  asked whether  there  would  be more  cases  with            
requests before  the committee.  Ms. Ritchie was  not aware  of any            
large  requests  comparable  to   the  permanent  fund  appeal  the            
previous  year  involving $5  million.  She  promised to  keep  the            
committee  informed  if the  department  heard of  any  significant            
cases.                                                                         
                                                                               
Mr.  Fisher informed  the  committee that  there  was another  item            
pending  that had  been overlooked  in production  of the  original            
bill, a net-zero supplemental request  to change $29,300 in program            
receipts to  zero-fund match. The  request related to  the Medicaid            
provider broad  unit for FY  97. He  explained that there  were two            
issues. First,  the federal government  had reservations  about the            
use of program receipts to match  the program. Second, the unit had            
had some  difficulties generating  the amount  of program  receipts            
that were  originally appropriated. He  stated that the  item would            
appear in the near future.                                                     
                                                                               
ALASKA COURT SYSTEM                                                          
                                                                               
CHRIS  CHRISTIANSON,  STAFF  COUNSEL,   ALASKA  COURT  SYSTEM  (via            
teleconference),  testified  regarding Section  14,  a request  for            
$44,500. He  explained that  the supplemental  request was  part of            
the unfunded  impact of  welfare-reform legislation  on the  tribal            
courts. As originally submitted,  the request was for six months of            
personal-services  costs  and  certain   one-time  contractual  and            
equipment  costs  totaling $44,000.  He  pointed  out that  he  had            
provided   the  committee   the  previous   week  with  a   revised            
supplemental request  reducing the item to four  months of personal            
services costs for  a total of $32,200. The reduction  was a result            
of new information received the  week before that. He detailed that            
the  welfare-reform  legislation  required the  Division  of  Motor            
Vehicles  (DMV)   to  revoke  occupational  licenses   and  drivers            
licenses  of individuals  who were  not  in substantial  compliance            
with tribal  court orders.  The matter was  a federal  mandate. The            
law applied to occupational licenses  when they were being obtained            
or renewed.  However, it applied  to all drivers  licenses, whether            
or  not they  were  up  for renewal.  A  person whose  license  was            
revoked by  DMV could appeal the  revocation to the  superior court            
and the court must  hold (?) within 20 days. The  number of persons            
not  in compliance  varied from  year  to year.  He estimated  that            
approximately 15,000  were not in substantial compliance  and about            
10 percent  of those would end  up in superior court on  appeal. He            
anticipated a substantial  number of cases related  to occupational            
licenses would come to the courts in the near future.                          
                                                                               
Mr. Christenson  listed reasons why  the costs on the  backup sheet            
were low. First, the assumption  was that each appeal would average            
only  one-half  hour  of  judicial  time,  which  could  be  a  low            
estimate. The judge had to review  the file, conduct an evidentiary            
hearing, and draft  (?). He assured the committee  that the process            
would  be done  the  most  cost-effective way  possible,  including            
having Anchorage  residents come  to hearings there,  while persons            
outside  Anchorage  would  participate  by  telephone.  The  second            
reason for the  low estimate was that under existing  law, a person            
could  file a  separate  action  requesting modification  of  child            
support. Such modifications were  substantially more time-consuming            
than  appeals. The  court system  did not  know how  many have  the            
option.                                                                        
                                                                               
DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES                                              
                                                                               
NICO BUS, BUDGET COORDINATOR, DIVISION  OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES,            
DEPARTMENT OF  NATURAL RESOURCES, testified regarding  Section 4(e)            
for  $200,000  for  emergency  repair  on  Perseverance  Trail.  He            
detailed that during the previous  fall floods had washed the trail            
and made conditions dangerous. One  person had died trying to cross            
a section that  was iced over. The Department  of Natural Resources            
was asking  for a  supplemental because an  initial attempt  to put            
the item in the capital budget  would mean that the bid cycle would            
be too  late to begin construction  before tourist  season started.            
He added that most of the money would go for contracting.                      
                                                                               
In response to a question, Mr.  Bus clarified that the item was for            
the Division of Parks.                                                         
                                                                               
Senator Parnell opined  that it was unusual to  have a supplemental            
request for  such an item. He asked  whether there had  ever been a            
similar request. He referred to  a flood that had taken a bridge in            
1995 in  Chugach State Park, which  was only just  being addressed,            
and people  had been  living there.  He asked  whether people  were            
living (on or near) the trail.  He opined that the item should be a            
capital project. Mr. Bus replied  that there were not people living            
on the trail, but  that it was heavily used by  locals and tourists            
alike, approximately  35,000 people  per year.  He argued  that the            
trail should be  fixed as soon as possible for economic  as well as            
safety reasons.                                                                
                                                                               
Senator Sharp  queried whether commercial  operators paid a  fee to            
use  the trail.  Mr. Bus  answered  that they  did pay  a fee;  any            
commercial operator  using state  parks had to  pay a fee,  and the            
amount was negotiated based on  the type of activity. He offered to            
get more information.                                                          
                                                                               
Senator Sharp  confirmed that the trail  was part of a  state park.            
Mr. Bus  detailed that there was  no campground, only a  trail, and            
that the trail was the only part under state jurisdiction.                     
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce  asked whether the  state owned the land  the trail            
was on, and the  designation of the land around the  trail. Mr. Bus            
answered  that  the  state  of  Alaska  owned  the  land  and  that            
ownership  was mixed.  He listed  the various  owners of the  land:            
state, city and  borough, and private. The trail  system itself was            
owned by the state Division of Parks.                                          
                                                                               
Senator Parnell  noted that in  Chugach State Park,  volunteers did            
trail  work.  He  asked  whether there  were  local  volunteers  or            
entities that  could help  with the  Perseverance project.  Mr. Bus            
responded that most  of the time, the division was  good at getting            
park volunteer  organizations to  assist with projects.  He pointed            
out that  the capital project  required significant  blasting which            
had to be  contracted out and that  the bulk of the  money would to            
for  that.  He  stressed  that   volunteers  would  be  used  where            
possible.                                                                      
                                                                               
Co-chair  Pearce asked  whether the  geology of  the trail made  it            
safe enough for blasting and whether  the trail would wash out in a            
future  storm.  Mr.  Bus  replied   that  the  situation  would  be            
evaluated.  He was not  personally familiar  with the geology.  The            
terrain was clearly  very steep, and the plan was  to set the trail            
back quite a bit. The current  trail was the result of early mining            
activity. He distributed backup  material illustrating the plans to            
put the trail on rock.                                                         
                                                                               
Senator Parnell queried  the amount of money taken  by the state in            
commercial operator  fees on  the trail. Mr.  Bus did not  know but            
offered  to get  the information.  Senator Parnell  also wanted  to            
know whether  the fees  were collected  in advance  of the  year of            
use. Mr.  Bus replied that the  fee was against  potential revenues            
and  sometimes exceeded  expenditures,  unless  there  was a  major            
maintenance situation such as the one described.                               
                                                                               
Senator  Parnell asked  when the  fees were paid.  Mr. Bus  replied            
that the fees were paid at the  start of the calendar year when the            
permit was applied for.                                                        
                                                                               
Senator Sharp  reported that the  pictures in the  backup materials            
changed his view of the problem.  He had thought a slide covered up            
the trail,  but it was  evident the  trail itself had  sloughed off            
and down. He asked whether the  damage pictured was the full extent            
of the damage.  Mr. Bus replied that the pictures  were of the most            
visible damage;  there was  significant deterioration  further down            
the trail. He reported  that where the person had  died was an even            
narrower section that experienced  icing during the winter. Further            
down the trail, there was more activity.                                       
                                                                               
Senator Sharp  summarized that roughly  $200,000 would be  used. He            
asked the  estimated length  of the trail  that would  be addressed            
for that cost.  Mr. Bus did not know the exact  distance that would            
be affected.                                                                   
                                                                               
Senator  Sharp  asked  whether   other  parts  of  the  trail  with            
deterioration  would be addressed.  Mr. Bus  thought the  immediate            
item was  for emergency  repair and would  not entail  upgrading of            
the rest of the trail.                                                         
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce  asked whether  the slides  had reached  the creek.            
Mr.  Bus  answered  in the  affirmative.  Co-chair  Pearce  queried            
possible permitting  challenges because of the stream.  She did not            
think the permitting  could be done in the projected  timeline. Mr.            
Bus answered that the supplemental  item would provide the money to            
get  the process  started  as soon  as  possible.  He thought  that            
waiting  for  the capital  budget  would  mean missing  the  summer            
season for work.                                                               
                                                                               
Co-chair Pearce asked who would  get the necessary permits. Mr. Bus            
replied that the state would have to do the permitting.                        
                                                                               
Senator  Phillips asked why  the Perseverance  Trail was  different            
than  another trail  going to  glaciers,  which had  washed out  in            
1995.                                                                          
                                                                               
Senator  Parnell wondered  whether the  area had  been posted  off-            
limits. Mr. Bus replied that the  trail had been closed immediately            
after the  floods, but that closing  the trail did not  keep people            
from using it. He underlined concerns about liability.                         
                                                                               
Senator Parnell was  concerned about the use of  volunteers because            
of the timeline. He thought there  was an inconsistency because Mr.            
Bus had indicated that volunteers  were going to be used, but there            
was  not  enough time  to  organize  the  volunteer work.  Mr.  Bus            
clarified that  volunteers would  be used but  that they  were only            
available  at  certain times.  The  blasting  had to  be  addressed            
first. The state wanted to be in control of the process.                       
                                                                               
Senator Parnell asked  whether the permitting referred  to had been            
evaluated. Mr. Bus believed the  division had looked into the issue            
but he did not know.                                                           
                                                                               
Senator Parnell  questioned the timing  of plans. He  asked whether            
commercial operators  were being advised  not to pay fees.  Mr. Bus            
answered that  if the trail was  not open they would  not authorize            
the  commercial  operators  to  use  it.  He  emphasized  that  the            
supplemental  fund would  give them  the best  chance to start  the            
process early.                                                                 
                                                                               
Co-chair  Pearce noted  that  the rest  of  the supplemental  items            
would be carried over.                                                         
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects